Water/Methanol Injection

Fred, what will happen if you run out of water/meths - just curious?

also, can you still add haha-gas to that mixture?

Firstly I carry 1 liter in the boot for emergency. Secondly I fitted an electronic level sensor to warn me in advance. Thirdly you can upgrade to a full size type 5l or what ever tank in your boot I suppose.Worst case senario, I unplug the electronic control,pump thus off and I turn the boost down to stock and walla 😂 😂 😂 Yes I can add Nitromethane 😂

Does your system continuously pump or is throttle position set?? Do you run water on meth?? I have never run meth only water, is there a MAJOR difference??

No, it only pumps from 2.6v to 4.7 volts from the MAF sensor. It does it electronically then. Basically from start boost and up, and the MAF sensor only delivers 4.7 volts max. I only use 50/50 water/mathanol. Never methenol only.The 50/50 mix is by weight and not by volume.On this subject of meths only or water only, is been written pages and pages full. The research on that is established long ago and the result is 50/50 water/meths. Yes there must be a difference using meths added.The meths up the octane, the water for cooling and what a brilliant combination. With 95 feul, you end up 120 octane with meths.Then of course you need to make use of advance timing.

Fred, just another thing - is it true that a water/meths setup will discolour your pipes until they are red? If it is not true, please post a pic of your engine bay as proof?

Will meths corrode the wiper washer bottle?? How much is meths??

😈 😈 😈 😈 😈 That is the closest I will get to own a red sx

N0 it wont corrode your washer bottle.Meths is cheap.R250-00 for 25 liters. Remember the pump must be lower than the water/meths container, or should compensate then with necc valves and those goodies.

But corrosion can be a problem elsewhere.So be careful anyway.

I dont use water wash bottle.

With 95 feul, you end up 120 octane with meths.Then of course you need to make use of advance timing.

Thats a bit starnge as Methanol has a Octane rating of 95 according to my sources.
As for cooling the methanol will cool as much or more than water due to the very high latent heat of evaporation. All the water does is replace combustible mixture with steam and slow down the flame front.

Methanol cools things down considerably and burns making power. In my opinion water injection is a band aid rather design the car and mods properly in the 1st case.

Well I have a FMIC and water injection. And when the water injection is on I can get about 0.08Bar more boost. There is definately a noticable diff when it comes on.

I will soon be making it spray the cooler and then the intake, staged and controlled by my ECU. I will have a air intake temp gauge so will be able to see the diff each makes and how much, will let you know when done

To be exact the octane of meths is 113. I said you should end up 120 with local 95 feul and meths. The meths is not there for cooling. The water does that. The combination of the two is good anyway. I dont know what you mean its burn making power. What does burn making power means? According to my dictionary latent means present or potential. Where on earth do u get water under high pressure to be hot. Water under 150PSI pressure is not hot or steam. It is the opposite. No steam. Without being rude at all, I dont think you understand technology that started off in the second world war.Why against proven technology and how come water/meths working for me and thousands Americans?Proof is there and on paper.My sx is very succesfully tuned with water /meth by local tuner. A very well known tuner and it was just a plessure for them to see the results. Band Aid? Where on earth do you get my sx's power gains for half the PRICE?Total cost for water/meths was R3800-00 for 80 BHP increase without an intercooler?. Check out the forum of Boost Cooler Snowperformance. A whole forum dedicated only to water/meths.Dragsters etc with record times etc. The next point of value will be advantages and disadvantages, but I am going o leave it here, cause there is enough to read on and gain knowledge.

AG Bell says 89 to 91MON Wikipidia says 123RON. Still not going to raise your fuel octane to 120.
Methanol latent heat of evaporation 445 btu/lbs Petrol 135 btu/lbs (BTU= British Thermal Unit its the amount of energy required to raise 1lb of water by One deg F)

I quote AG BEll, Forced Induction Performance Tuning
"Methanol has a very high latent heat of evaporation it takes a lot of heat to be converted from a liquid to a vapour.This heat is drawn from from the inlet tract, combustion chamber, the piston crown and the valves. An internally cooler engine has a cooler inlet charge and more dense mixture and the power goes up. Also less heat means a slower burn so the engine may accept more spark lead or more boost"

I quote again
"during combustion the water is turned to steam that conversion pulls heat out of the combustion process slowing the rate of pressure rise in the combustion process.Additionally these steam particles get inbetween fuel and oxygen molecules which slows combustion"

Now for the downside Methanol burns with a very pale flame and cannot be seen in sunlight.
Methanol is absorbed by the body converted to formaldehyde and is stored in the fat cells it is never eliminated and builds up untill you start having serious side effects.

In MY opinion water injection is a band aid for a problem which a properly designed system would not have.

You run water injection if it turns you on, Me I am happier designing things in such a way that it is not needed.

Methanol is absorbed by the body converted to formaldehyde and is stored in the fat cells it is never eliminated and builds up untill you start having serious side effects. :?: :?: Dont know what this sentence of yours about nutrition is applicable. But now that you quote sources, it will end source against source then. I still dont follow you and your quote on the steam situation. Once the water is vapourised under high pressure, it enters the TB inlet not as steam. I dont use any heat outside to heat water. But I will get back to you on this one. Most probably will be back with source quotes. But in the mean time - what is your answer yes or no? is water/meths working or not? Which system or car is properly designed? Why do some add bigger turbos and intercoolers?

I got one area where we miss communicate. i quote:The primary function of water/methanol injection is to provide “chemical intercooling”.

In gasoline engines, as with any intercooler, this suppresses detonation so more power producing boost and timing can be utilized. Water, with its high latent heat of vaporization cools the intake charge and combustion. Methanol cools the charge and combustion but also acts like an extremely high octane fuel (some researchers claim as high as 120 octane) as well as adding more oxygen to combustion.
What I mean is you said methanol is high latent heat of vaporization. Are there any changes that both water and methanol reacts the same with high latent heat of vaporization??

Now yes, the answer is yes for both and I quote this one:Methanol is a high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. ($1.50 - $2.00 per gallon.) Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better anti-detonant than ethanol or iso-propanol although they will work in a pinch. It has however only about 60% of the energy content of gasoline by volume so about twice as much is used to make similar power if used as a straight fuel. Quotes stop here.

Now the problem is the different outcome defenitions of your source and mine.

I say water/meths works. I can see and feel it works. I appreciate your ideal design argument and that is fine. I just got the impession that you tell the forum water/meths is a no go.Yes we can make choices.

And Gary, back to the windsh wash container:Why not use a windshield washer pump?

Water/Methanol must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced total surface area.

I think this answers better than my previous attempt.

Any comments on the Aquamist system compared to the Snow Performance system? Who are the local agents and which system are you using? Cost? I been reeding up on this technology now for a number of years. Very interesting!

That is also what I would like to comment on. More and more starts to realize the positive outcome of water/meths. Now that racing feul 102.6 is terminated, more an more car ownners will start looking into water/meth.

Back to octane and I quote this:Methanol is also a huge octane booster. We’re not sure exactly how much it raises a typical 93 octane application, but some say as high as 115-120 octane. Not sure about this yet, but it definitely raises the octane substantially from 93 judging from the amount of additional spark we can add to a non-methanol tune. Methanol also lowers the inlet temps quite a bit - as much as 60 - 100+ degrees.

And I quote this, to agree on the octane figure being 1 or 2 left or right:With the cost of today’s fuels it’s not uncommon to grab the nozzle at the local pump and select 93 octane and not really get 93 octane because of several different reasons, including winter blends, regional differences, fraud and many other reasons. This is why I’m very quick to recommend to the guys with the cars that have higher levels of boost to seriously consider race fuels or a mixture of race fuels as opposed to just unleaded pump premium fuels only. There is also a time and place where race fuels are needed exclusively on some applications. Stops the quote.