Anyone has any input regarding using cone filters. I bought a K & N cone filter as recommended by the man in the shop c/w adapter and servicing kit. I made a special bracket to mount it and sorted out a new home for the dropping resistor. A good afternoons work. I took the car for a spin and it ran like a dog. No power, holding back and very jerky. It also made a rattling noise when i took my foot off the accelerator to change gears. I had to take the filter off and revert back to the original. Does the engine now have to be tuned to accept this lovely filter? Very sad.
K & N Cone Filter
it shouldn't have such a dramatic effect on your car!
the rattling noise, what you mean???
when i installed mine, i could suddenly hear all sorts of things i couldn't before. things like suction noise as soon as you put your foot on the throttle, and the wastegate chatter when you let go of the throttle.
mine was in conjunction with a bigger exhaust, and it suddenly was popping and burbling on decel too.
so maybe more descrition is necessary, and are you absolutely sure that you can rule everything else out (other than the cone filter)???
it shouldn't have such a dramatic effect on your car!
I will lie if I could agree with the above. It has an effect. My car could not be dyna tuned at all!!!. It was either reverting back to stock filter, or unichip to change characteristics. I converted back to the stock filter. Today I have unichip fitted, but still with the old stock filter. Even if you dont experience any problems with your cone filter, it is always heat, heat, and more heat.
How much did you pay for it and where from?? I am looking for a 76mm, best quote R400.00
Gary, R400 I think is a good price. I know that you have a cone filter at the moment and it works...Does the heat not affect it? I mean do you feel a difference between when the engine is cold and when it's hot? How does one keep it away from heat inside the engine bay? I wonder if there is some sort of shielding required. I paid R755 for the filter, adapter, and servicing kit.
A cone filtre hanging in your engine bay is a waste of money all you are doing is lowering the detonation threshhold of your motor by feeding it hot air.
Remember Nissan do not measure air temp or do any correction for it. You will be running the same timing and fuelling regardless of air temp.
Also no stupid little metal shield attached to your filter is going to stop it from sucking hot air.
If you really want a CAI then spend your money on a BMC CDA or equavalent
Remember Nissan do not measure air temp or do any correction for it. You will be running the same timing and fuelling regardless of air temp.
The MASS AIR FLOW does compensate for heat. It measures the density of the which is dependant on the heat and altitude. You know how the MAF works so I wont explain.
I saw a heat shield pic of a sx once, it just made the cone filter have its own compartment, cant remember where. It looked real nice, it blocked off the whole area where the airbow used to be.
There is a slight difference when its hot i suppose, doesnt really bother me.
I think some one should put there car on the dyno with the airbox and then strip that out and put a cone, then we can see if there is really a difference. I personally dont think there will be, yes the cone takes more heat but the airbox is more of a restriction.
Maybe get some one to measure intake air temps and compare??
I think some one should put there car on the dyno with the airbox and then strip that out and put a cone, then we can see if there is really a difference.
Gary, I have done that. Dyno with, dyno without. No go. You can dyno it, but it was ness to fit unichip to compensate. Then I did measure temps right in front of stock air box. Sometimes up to 48 deg Celsius, and that inside the round pipe about 2 inches from box. Can you imagine heat in engine bay. Can post pic of temp sensor fitted. As far as I know, the cooler the air in the better. 🙄 🙄
look guys as far as i can tell no matter what your air temp is your turbo is above 400C at operating temp and can go up as far as 900 so the air is gona get heated one way or the other, heat does not have such a big difference on force induction as on a normal aspirated car cos the pressure stays constant thanks to your waste gate 🙂 k snooby had the same quirk with his car all i did for him is clean his air flow sensor and bob's your aunty 🙂 try it and let me know? Cheers
Sometimes up to 48 deg Celsius
Was that with the airbox in place?? What was the temp with the cone filter??
look guys as far as i can tell no matter what your air temp is your turbo is above 400C at operating temp and can go up as far as 900 so the air is gona get heated one way or the other, heat does not have such a big difference on force induction as on a normal aspirated car
Thats my way of thinking, besides if your cooler have a good enough effiency it will bring the charge temp down to ambient tempreture anyway.
If turbo intake temp made a huge difference surely the drag guys in the states and AUS would use a air box, but they dont they suck air from the turbo intake with no filter (they have too much money) which to me is the hottest place.
i wouldn't put too much value into what the drag guys do...
they don't build engines to last 100 000km
If their shit pops, they just gooi another one in
But they are out there for power so they would be the ones to know what gives more.
yes - that's true.
That's why they DON'T have filters = FOKOL restriction.
So sschweet - i'm gonna can my air filter, cuz it's obviously not needed...
because the DRAG guys do it...
see? it'll be dumb - you _need_ a filter, it's not a 'maybe i should have it'. And sucking in colder air would mean it's denser, the turbo doesn't have to kill itself to make the same boost it would by sucking hot air.
And being at altitude your tubby is already taking strain to make the same boost it does down at the coast.
End of the day - if you can get colder air, no matter what induction you running (na/fi) you gonna benifit. Whether it's power or long term reliability
Yes I agree with that but by having a airbox you are creating a restriction which the turbo has to do work harder to overcome, pretty much the same as it needs to work more becuase of the increased heat. But anyway your intercooler should be be bring the charge temp down to almost ambient temp.
I honestly dont believe that the intake temp being down by 10 or so degrees will have much of an effect once it has passed through the 600degree turbo and then through an intercooler.
i'm pretty sure it's much more than 10...
i mean, if it's 30 outside, it's gonna be like 50 inside the engine comp
k guys play nicely now 🙂 lets get back to the point? It was asked why his car didnt want to go after fitting the filter, like i said try cleaning the air flow sensor but be very very carefull its very fragile 🙂 try it and see, the noise you hear can be anything so unless you describe it to us we cant help but my money is on the waste gate opening 🙂
The MASS AIR FLOW does compensate for heat. It measures the density of the which is dependant on the heat and altitude. You know how the MAF works so I wont explain.
Really? So let me get this straight at a given throttle position boost and rpm the air density falls off because its now at 100deg C.
The maf registers less airflow. How on earth does the ecu KNOW that this is due to heat and not due to a change in some other condition like lets say a blocked airfilter or maybe a change of altitude or even an increase in ambient temperature.
Why on earth does every other manufacturer insist on wasting money by fitting a Air temp sensor when the maf is capable of doing all this work.
The maf registers less airflow. How on earth does the ecu KNOW that this is due to heat and not due to a change in some other condition like lets say a blocked airfilter or maybe a change of altitude or even an increase in ambient temperature.
Yes it does measure less airflow and therefore less fuel is injected. It is regardless why the is less airflow the ECU will compensate the fueling accordingly.
Why on earth does every other manufacturer insist on wasting money by fitting a Air temp sensor when the maf is capable of doing all this work.
The problem with a MAF is that is restrictive, it is a slight venturi which restricts the air.
The MAF meter has a "HOT WIRE" it measure the resistance in this wire from which it calculates the MASS of air flowing. The more air particals hitting this wire the cooler it get and therefore the lower the restance. The less air particals hitting the wire the greater the resistance.
An AIR FLOW meter is better because less restriction but it cannot measure the mass of air, thats why cars with mass meters have air temp sensor aswell.
You cannot determine the amount of air particles by just measuring air flow.
The problem with a MAF is that is restrictive, it is a slight venturi which restricts the air.
An AIR FLOW meter is better because less restriction but it cannot measure the mass of air, thats why cars with mass meters have air temp sensor aswell.
gary - those two statements seem to be contradictory. MAF is an acronym for Mass Air Flow. so in the first statement you say its restrictive, and in the second you say its not!
You cannot determine the amount of air particles by just measuring air flow.[/quote]
i thought the hot-wire was just nissan's way of measuring the volume of air passing through the sensor. i know our rotary motor has a different design of MAF sensor, it has a long plastic pipe, with a bullet shaped internal piece that is spring-loaded and attached to a variable resistor. the more air flows through it, the further back the bullet shaped piece is pushed, and this is how it measures airflow.
but there is also a MAP - mass air pressure sensor - that the computer uses as well.
gary - those two statements seem to be contradictory. MAF is an acronym for Mass Air Flow. so in the first statement you say its restrictive, and in the second you say its not!
Sorry my wording is a bit messed up. An air flow meter (like the Opel boss uses) measures the speed of the air, hence AIR FLOW METER, and a air temp sensor top correct it. The 200sx uses a MAF meter, measures the density of the air.
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