Copper Questions - Need Advice

As some might know, I'm currently replacing my Exhaust Manifold Gaskets.

I heard copper gaskets are much better then standard ones, as they take alot higher temperatures & can expand & contract with the metal.

To an extent I believe it as the bolts around the turbo & the washers on the turbo & water lines are all copper.

I can get a small sheet of 2mm copper, which I want to use. Can I use it as is? Will it work?
Is 2mm to thin or too thick?

I want to put the copper between the manifold & engine & manifold & turbo.

Here's another quick question. I went out & bought copper bolts for the turbo(manifold to turbo) & also got copper bolts for the manifold as well(manifold to engine) The guy told me this will work fine, considering the original bolts are steel.

Any thoughts/advice will be welcomed.
Also consider the locking plates for the turbo bolts are also copper.

Since you had such troubles with your exhaust gaskets maybe you check if the manifold is still straight?? Copper is often used for exhaust gaskets, the gasket between my turbo and manifold is copper so are all my bolts.

Yes, I have replaced the manifold. thanks to Vlade & sending it for skimming.

The problem I had was that the manifold cracked, but since I'm putting everything back, I want to do a rock solid job.

I'm guessing you have no problems with the gaskets then.
What mm did you use?

i haven't read any of this, but a long time ago a copper expanded out of his astra, i gave the copper R100, and he contracted into his astra - problem solved

widowmaker wrote:

i haven't read any of this, but a long time ago a copper expanded out of his astra, i gave the copper R100, and he contracted into his astra - problem solved

heh - you got smoked! R100 is a rip - R20 is the going rate. faaark - i know a oke that paid a buddy coke as the 'contraction fee'

Before you guys hi-jack this thread. I still need some specs.
How thick is the copper gaskets.
Can plain sheets of copper be used & cut or is there a special mixture with different metals?

Answer damn it :x

I would just buy Nissan gaskets

Its what I'm doing with my tubular manifold

check of rezlo can help you

daaaamn - talk about molesting the english language...

it's enough that ppl say 'could OF' the whole time, now you tjoon 'check OF'

next it's going to be 'can i OF modify my car OF' 😛

(stirring kak FTW)

1st
You can use copper gaskets however they have to be annealed before use.
2nd
Copper Bolts? will not be up to the job. The "copper" nuts are bactually steel with a copper flash coating.

I suggest new Wurth studs remember 10x1.25 not 10x1.50 with new "copper" nuts also in 10x1.25 not the industry norm of 10x1.5.

Thanks Mr Calibrator.
But before you run. Annealed? What is that?

sounds like it needs to be prepared first. But how?

okay, this is what I found out so far on annealing
"
Many of our old engines use copper gaskets, particularly when you have a removable cylinder (eg. Lister diesels and petrol engines, Southern Cross Engines, and many others). The copper gaskets are used as both shims and seals to between the crank case and the cylinder. Some engines used copper for head gaskets (I have a Rosebery 3C vertical which has a copper head gasket). The copper gaskets can be reused but need to be softened (or annealed) first.
"

Okay here is something else I read.

I can heat copper up to 500 degrees and then allow to cool down. Apparently the cool down period is unimportant. where I dip it in water & leave it to air cool doesn't matter.

Copper is in a hard form or soft form. The soft form is what this process is getting to. You can take hard copper which can handle 10 to 14 tons per inch, anneal it & then it becomes soft copper which can handle 20 to 24 tons per inch.

My next question. Where can I buy soft copper? & will the bastard on the other end of the counter know what the fark I'm talking about.

i used a copper gasket between the mani-turbo. It lasted all of a week! my exhaust is blowing 😈 I did have a bit of a high boost incident (1.4bar guessometer) but that was once and then i fixed the actuator.

To be honest im not positive yet its the copper one that went. but thats the one i suspect. Nissan gasket will go there now either tonight or tomorrow.

Firstly annealing is a Harding process. The copper (or whatever metal) is heated up slowly and then it is cooled down very fast (or as fast as possible without distorting the material) to make it hard. They normally dip the glowing metal into a chemical bath to add in the cooling down process.

Now there are also variations of annealing. One is when a product is heated up and place in a control environment and allowed to cool VERY slowly, sometimes up to 18hours. This makes the material softer and more malleable. This is usually done before the forming of the steel takes place and then the finished product is annealed again (to harden it).

I used 1.6mm copper between my turbo and manifold. Annealing of it is not nessesary because it is between two square surfaces and therefore distortion can taking place.

@Gary.
According to the stuff on the net, annealing softens copper & cool down time whether quickly or slowly, doesn't matter as the result is still the same.
Apparently, this applies to copper & not other materials.
I'm also just pulling stuff that I have found & have no personal experience on it.

Can you use the same gasket inbetween the cylinder head & manifold?
Is 2mm to thick too use as well?

Do you self a favour, get the copper laser cut in 3mm plate and then send it in to a machine shop and get in milled down square to 1.6mm or so. Then at least you know it will a face fit on all sides, NO LEAKS.

Gary, I will be in DBN this weekend for a wedding.
Is there a place there that I could have it done?
"The laser cutting & milling"
I will carry the manifold if need be, so that the guys can use it as a template.

No matter what material it is the fundamental molecular structure is the same. It will harden when cooled fast and soften when cooled slow. I have experience with as I send parts for hardening.

Between the manifold and head I just used those cheap gaskets from the local spares shop. Smother it with silicone and your A for away. I made a steel gasket for a Toyota supercharged motor that a guy had turbo-ed and got it laser cut in 6mm mild steel and then machined it down to 5mm, worked perfectly. But I am sure 2mm will be fine, just make sure its square.

Woohaa I'd just stick with some Nissan like gaskets or Payen ones... Remember not that shiny 3 layer ones... they will last for a trip around the block...

Take those Nissan type gasket put a thin layer of gasket maker (I use Locktite Grey) on both sides of the gasket and tighten down with some decent copper nuts like what Duane mentioned, don't over tighten they strip easily.

That will last, for about 50 000-100 000km if you are not running lean. If you run lean you exhaust gets FREAKING hot... I mean so hot it glows.